What you put in, you'll get back ten fold

Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

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Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby Mazda Mender » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:57 am

I guess this is a warning to all fellow owners out there....

I had a chap message me about his pride and joy that had been undersealed/protected by a "specialist" ( I use that word very loosely ) just recently and asked for my opinion on his photos some before and some after... Now this chap paid ÂŁ400 for this service for his car to be "protected", he was told that "everything " was removed and all the box sections done also....
This is from a Co that "only" deal with undersealing and was recommended through the community "as a place to trust and use". Look at the pictures and let me know what you see and think. Can you see it in the pictures below ?? I cannot post the Company name or the owners name that this was done to on his MK 2, as that is solely down to himself, but this sh*t angers me so felt the need to put this out there to be knowledgeable. Do your home work and ask any of us before leaving the keys for your pride and joys, other owners have been to this place and had this done under the illusion that their hard earned money has been spent to prolong the life of their Roadsters.
I have seen this before, some moons back, with a different Co that is a bit closer to me that was also solely charging for protecting cars and that one was a total disgrace. I ended up sorting out for the lady and getting some cash back when they saw sense, that Co was advertised in the clubs magazine as a "place to trust and use". The owners club dealt with it very poorly by the chap that wore the position badge at the time with no interest towards the members that were using the place and bad over paid workmanship to the paying members. He was geared more towards the Co to still be advertised with very shoddy work in the mag for a lot more of hard earned, so that was a frustrating time as I locked horns with the chap in a position to deal with this as I also locked horns with the chap that owned the Co myself to get the right thing done and resolve the issue.

So my concerns are that this is now a norm?? Easy money from worried passionate owners for shoddy cheap protection at a high cost that is not doing what it says on the tin.

Any way back the the original chaps story....He sent them the link from off here of the MK 2.5 15,000 mile car that I am sorting that has been correctly stripped down for protection in all the correct areas. Everything that needs to be removed has been for good reason to get to problem areas, he was told...." that's a bit over the top", it is far from over the top to be able to protect these roadsters in the catch areas that "NEED " protecting for good reason from tin worm and rot then orange dust.

So ...Please...Please...Please....get this done with the guys that know these roadsters inside out and know all the hot spots to be protected correct. Also ask for plenty of pictures for yourself to view them that it as been hit in "all the correct areas and places which helps for a resale, and NO this is not a push for me to do undersealing and box sections. I will knock up a quick reference guide of the areas to be protected and with what.

As you can clearly see from the pictures there is a lot not been removed that should of been,,,undersealing on plastic does nothing. As does injecting into a plastic cover that's not a box section ,but see if you can spot them all, and feel free to comment..
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The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ...being rebuilt

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
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Mazda Mender
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Re: Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby Mazda Mender » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:50 am

This was a MK 1 that came to me in 2015 that had also been to a dedicated undersealing protection place and she had paid a lot of money. The lady took the recommendation from out of the clubs mag and went there with faith for that reason. It was bad, on removing the plastic arch liners front and rear it was very clear that they had not been removed to protect the rust prone areas and as you can see the line with dirt still in place that was also sprayed on top of....I was told by the Company on questioning this that they use an invisible spray to go behind the liners etc. ( have you ever heard so much bullsh*t). I asked who was signing off the jobs after completion for proof that the job as been done correct, and were they coming to work with a stick and a golden retriever...I was told "You don't know what your talking about and it is professional jealousy" … I had never laughed so hard.
The club were a total waste of time on trying to sort it all out and I believe that this Company that the lady used are still advertised in the mag????..whats the point of allowing a Co to advertise for business and a benefit with the club when it is poor overpiced work and is no benefit..they threatened to take me to court for slander...it is only slanderous if it is not a fact...so i said fine... After i sent him some pics of the work, there was a change of heart. Surprise surprise! She got a reimbursement of cash and I finished it off properly for her .

There is a lot more to the story of back and to...but you get the jist...

Below are the pictures of the poor work that they said was good after the trim that should of been removed were afterwards...note the mud behind the front wing and sill...it is not fresh...with "invisible wax treatment"......
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The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ...being rebuilt

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
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Re: Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby Mazda Mender » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:14 am

Found the rest of them of the ladies Mk1.....
Names have not been used to protect the lady involved, is that ok paula....x
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The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ...being rebuilt

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
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Re: Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby Mazda Mender » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:04 am

Now this is my opinion on what to remove and protect. It does not mean you need to follow it to the letter. Please see this more as a general things to do list and areas of interest to point you in the correct direction. While the OP's post came through I was funnily enough in the process of protecting a MK 2.5. So while taking pics for the owner for his proof for any resale, I took a lot of pics of of the process for others to follow on their drives or garage if they are doing it themselves. Or seeing where and what has been protected when you get pics from these undersealing /protection specialists come through to you after trusting them with your pride and joy. When handing the keys over the term " you pay for what you get" is 90% correct so be careful. Unlike the company in this thread that charged high end dollar for low end work, so you need to have you wits about you. Check it before taking the keys back, it is your right to do so. If you not happy say so and get them to put it right before handing over any hard earned cash, because thats all they want and all they see you as..

Its your roadster, your money and you are paying for a job and service, they are not doing it for free to help you.

These pics are of a MK 2.5 , it is the same for the MK 1's although the front rails are not made of cheese, so injecting with cavity wax is the route to go with the MK 1's.

*****DO NOT APPLY ANY PROTECTION PRODUCTS TO A WET CAR OR WITH DIRT AND LOOSE RUST/PAINT******

So the first thing is to get it up in the air, wheel chocks, jack and axle stands, on solid ground and flat, then remove the...

Wheels....
Under braces front and back etc...
Under body heat shields....
Front and rear arch liners/plastic shields...
Fuel filter cover...
Under tray......
front bumper..
head lights and location lugs....
front impact bumper...
front spikes....
Air guide if possible....
Rear lights...
Rear bumper....
Drop the zorst off the 3 x rear hangers...
Undo the front wings...2 x 10mm bolts at the bottom and a 10mm nut behind the inner wing( further in from the indicator
)...

There is less to remove on the MK 1, as you go through the Marks it gets more and more until you end with the MK 4 at the minute with a skip load of plastic clips and panels....

Put all fixings in a container safe for reusing for fitting everything back on, because it is just a big jigsaw puzzle. You will also need to remove the the two bolts on the wings on each side, 10mm head bolts that hold the front wing in place underneath at the bottom of the sill, and just undo the 10mm nut that is behind the wing half way up towards the door, nearly in line with the wing indicator...

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A good clean is needed next to get rid of all dirt and let it all dry, please do not use a very high powered jet wash. It will do more harm than good, a cheapy small one from the likes of aldi, lidl etc are perfect for this...


Now you do not need to do this but I wrap the roadster, which is simply to stop any over spray of underseal flying onto the paint...please note the masking line on the wheel arches, there is a reason for this, you are sealing the lips all the way around...back...lip...front, but that choice is yours...


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Now we can start looking at the surface rust... Attack it with what ever you can... In this case it was a grinder with a flappy disc, a number of wire brushes ,scraper for loose or flaking bits, sand paper, rust converter, spray paint( never leave bare metal) to prep it all ready for undersealing...
Then it is just a case of making sure we can pull the front open to be apply to get to the back of the wing and front sill section, you will also see that I have pushed some cover sheet behind the door to stop the underseal going everywhere when we apply it....

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Now I am using a 50ltr aldi all singing all dancing air compressor and line, and does the job as a portable item really well, but not everyone has them. You can get the underseal in spray cans also for this. Now this is all being done on a drive way outside. So if i can hit this standard...so can you and save a car and save money...

What I will add is make sure you cover your drive/garage floor, cars near by etc etc....you will be surprised with just how far this stuff travels . A set of rag clothes, a hat, goggles and a mask, you will get covered in it and with out a mask it will attack your throat and chest 100%.

You should also note that I do cover the holes where the head lights were and the gaps in the inner wings to stop any unwanted underseal covering all in the engine bay. I also put a sheet in front of the rad to stop the rad getting hit. ( see pics)


Ok lets get it on.... We will be using a air compressor, but even so if you are using spray cans, remember it is all directional so places can be missed, what i tend to do is once finished, go and have a brew for 45 minutes and get a bright LED light and nip back under, it will highlight any areas missed that need more stuff to be applied to...


Once the underseal is dry, a day or so depending on the time of years, you can get in there with the cavity wax. Now you will be shock on just where all this stuff will run out from, as the shells are spot welded not sealed which will bring home why this treatment is needed to slow down tin worm...


I hope you can see from the pics the areas to get into on the cavity wax... Strip the boot and get into the inners of the wheel arches where the condensation runs down to bare metal to attacks. Also pop those rear number plate lights out and inject all the way along that inner edge for the same reason the leading edge pop...condensation on bare metal ...
Now the rear sill section on the MK 2/2.5's can be accessed through the rear arch liner fixing clip holes. On the MK 1's go through the large rubber grommet, you will also need to get the full inner and outer sections of the rear inner sill by the B post. You must look carefully as nearly everyone makes the mistake of not doing this right and missing important sections in the B post. You will see the outer panel, mid section and inner section, a lot of people miss getting to the outer panel. You need to get your injecting straw in,over and down in there also as well as the inner, (see pics) the MK 1 and 2's mid section are shaped different so the MK 2's mid section sits about half way in that hole. The MK 1 mid section sits higher so you will need to get your head down to find it. Now if you do not go down between the mid and outer section to inject and only inject into the mid and inner sections as nearly everyone does, you have just wasted your time and money by not doing so, so don't looked shocked when it pops on the outside with tin worm.

Run along the sills where the kick plates were, and inject into every hole you can find underneath. The front section is prone to blowing also where it curves up from underneath from the jacking point up into the wheel arch. This is a box section that holds water, make sure you get in that, and inject into the bottom of the doors, this is also important as they suffer from the same fate as the boot lid seals popping.

The old oil containers are there to simply keep the plastic sheets in place, because when I came to do this on a good warm dry day, it set the challenge of being a very windy day....challenge excepted ....I won. :-D
I hope the pics will help,as it is a pain getting pics while trying to do the job on your own, but we are here if you have any questions.

If you have found this guide to be useful, helpful or as helped you with your roadster with saving on garage costs , please consider making a donation to keep these gates open and available for others and so new info can still be added to carry on helping.


M-m
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The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ...being rebuilt

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
ale.28r
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Re: Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby ale.28r » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:57 am

Thanks for posting this, very detailed and useful as usual.
Do you have any preference regarding products? I have read good things about Dinitrol for cavity wax and rust converter, what about the underseal?

The previous owner of my car has applied some product years ago. It now appears to be some kind of rubbery black coat. I am pretty sure the car is quite solid underneath but I’m considering redoing it all.
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Re: Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby Mazda Mender » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:07 pm

Dinitrol do it all .....underseal,cavity wax and rust converter ...you can just get a kit for your model off the bay of e dilevered.
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ...being rebuilt

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
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Re: Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby Mazda Mender » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:51 am

MK 1 inner and outer sill sections seen from the B post with trim removed gaining access where the courtesy light switch is, same procedure as the MK 2's above only the inner sill section sits higher up, as you can see from these pics....


IMG-20191008-WA0004.jpg
IMG-20191008-WA0004.jpg (224.7 KiB) Viewed 602 times


IMG-20191008-WA0003.jpg
IMG-20191008-WA0003.jpg (41.93 KiB) Viewed 602 times


M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ...being rebuilt

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
ale.28r
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Re: Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby ale.28r » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:00 am

Good morning,

how many cans of each product are needed on average? Asking as I have some cavity wax and RC900 already.

Thanks
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Re: Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby Mazda Mender » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:58 am

Is it in date and how much do you have.
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ...being rebuilt

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
ale.28r
Just Run In
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:44 pm

Re: Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby ale.28r » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:25 pm

It is almost new and I have a can of RC900 and 2 of Dinitrol cavity wax. Just wanted to buy the necessary as I don’t have too much room for stuff I don’t need
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Re: Undersealing/and cavity protection.....and being careful who you use

Postby Mazda Mender » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:18 am

5 to 6 for undersealing depending on how good you want it and mark, around 5 for cavity depending on mark.
winter project attack?
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ...being rebuilt

http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/

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