What you put in, you'll get back ten fold
***** THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THE SITE AND HELPING YOU,OTHERWISE IT CLOSES AND ALL THIS ON LINE GARAGE IS GONE FOR GOOD*****

Greetings and welcome to menders, this site was built for every owner that might need her to help keep those bills low and also keep them on the road where they belong, she is run by very passionate enthusiasts owners for passionate enthusiastic owners, see her like a on line garage, there is a lot of tech stuff hopefully explained for everyone to use, if there is something you cannot get your head around, or you feel that there is a strong walk through guide missing that needs creating by one of us or from yourselves, please let us know, we are also on false book and youtube, which as short tech vids to help, and again if you feel there is a vid that would help please get it touch.
the menders is free, but like everything there is a cost to run things and bills( we are just happy its not a heating cost), so if we have saved you hundreds, please throw a small donation in the pot so we can keep on going to carry on helping others in the same way .

*** we are currently looking for a sponsor for this year, so if you have the passion and can see this sites worth to everyone , please get in touch and step forward to help***

And thank heavens that we are now on the way back up the brighter ,warmer longer days, "come on summer", and lets see those project builds.


M-m

Coolant rerouting

How to make improvements to your car.
User avatar
BenF
Epic Poster
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:50 pm
Location: Bath, Swindon or Noordwijk(NL)

Coolant rerouting

Postby BenF » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:45 pm

Lots of this on the web, anyone in here do theirs?
User avatar
BenF
Epic Poster
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:50 pm
Location: Bath, Swindon or Noordwijk(NL)

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby BenF » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:04 pm

Ummmmmm.... please tell me you're aware of the coolant stalling problem around cylinder 4??? :oops: :eek:
User avatar
Mazda Mender
Site Admin
Posts: 15069
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:18 pm
Location: Pie land, in the glen of Wiganshire
Contact:

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby Mazda Mender » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:20 pm

never heard of it, please share this problem from the internet goss? :laughing-rolling:
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build


http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
User avatar
BenF
Epic Poster
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:50 pm
Location: Bath, Swindon or Noordwijk(NL)

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby BenF » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:49 pm

I'll post up the info I have, but essentially, when the B6 & BP engines were lifted from the 323 (in which they're transverse mounted) the coolant flow had to be reversed for the packaging reasons associated with longitudinal mounting. Ever wondered why the hot outlet and thermostat are directly above the thermostat? not good for flow and I would agree with 'internet theory' on this. As you'll see below on the flow diagram, no.4 is being cooled (in effect) by the heater matrix:
Image
Looking at this in physics terms, the heater plumbing is say 1/2" bore (13mm) versus the main cooling system at around 1" bore (26mm). The engine being designed for the 323, and optimised for the flow path from front (no.1) lower to rear (no.4) upper the coolant pressure will build up in the area of no.4 effectively 'damming' and reversing the flow because it can't exit quick enough in that direction.
There are also many reports of hot-running enrichment - a safety mode in the ECU to prevent the engine running lean and melting - being triggered because of the overheating (you've heard '5's run hot?) leading to reduced efficiency and burning dirty.
Apparently Mazda themselves modified the headgasket around no.1 in '99 to limit the flow in that area and increase pressure around the other cylinders to keep coolant moving.
So the reroute is as shown here:
Image
Now, I'm not a thermo-dynamicist but this (to me at least) makes much more sense as it returns the system to how it was meant to work in the first place?
User avatar
Mazda Mender
Site Admin
Posts: 15069
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:18 pm
Location: Pie land, in the glen of Wiganshire
Contact:

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby Mazda Mender » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:22 pm

Maybe it might make a difference to a track car running at full top end for a longer period??? but what would this do or mean to a basic road car? plus the fact that the Mk 1 engine is far better than the rest,Times out on VVT Engine, but the 1.8cc versions right through prouduction as always been the weaker of the two, the Mk 1 was over engineered from day one, i have never had anyone have a issue or hit any ploblems with the OE set up.
The engine does run hot ,thats why the heaters are so great folks, and i understand about the need for cooling them as most will fit a after market high flow alloy rad ,and or better fans ,as over heater is a killer on these ,more so than the Mk 2 1.8 useing oil and running out because owners are trusting a false gauge than checking the oil level every week.
I understand the cooling side and why it is so important on these, but i do not see what this will give me or others to gain from.
But i do like this topic ,sell it to me, make me understand.
Because if it was such a problem i am sure mazda/ford would of done it that way, remember these ran from 1989 to 2005 and the termostat, as always sat at the front because there as been no need to change it ,because it worked.
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build


http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
User avatar
BenF
Epic Poster
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:50 pm
Location: Bath, Swindon or Noordwijk(NL)

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby BenF » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:12 pm

Track car, yes, and hot climate cars too (e.g. those in the far east and US), less so us, but imperfections and compromise in engineering niggle me :handgestures-thumbup:

Reading through Nutz as an example throws up (claimed) improvements with this mod, as well as less need to run a massive radiator (weight saving for me, win) and I have to say my limited knowledge of physics backs this up - I can't find fault with it yet...

...of course this is more critical for me with NO heater matrix at all... :whistle:
User avatar
nedski
Serial Poster
Posts: 733
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: North Kelsey, Market Rasen
Contact:

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby nedski » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:19 pm

Have you done this mod yet Ben. I'm having heating problems on long track stints. Actually stints over 15mins really. I have a bigger alloy rad and twin fans. I can just about keep it under control with the cabin heater on full.
Does anybody know of a kit for the 1.6 ? Mainly to adapt the outlet at the rear of the cylinder head.

Cheers anyone

edit. found this.
http://www.bellengineering.net/index.php?cPath=5_65_240_244
Mk1 1.6 Turbo. Gaz shocks. Tr Lane roll bar.
Garage Owner, Lincolshire
Helper to the Scunny track day crew and North Linc's Track Day Club.
www.stokesofkelsey.co.uk
User avatar
BenF
Epic Poster
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:50 pm
Location: Bath, Swindon or Noordwijk(NL)

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby BenF » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:44 pm

I'm going to make my own mate, but I'm not there yet... Sorry :-|
User avatar
nedski
Serial Poster
Posts: 733
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: North Kelsey, Market Rasen
Contact:

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby nedski » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:13 pm

Ah fair enough.
Ive found some old nutz threads for group buys but nothing current.
It's going to be a busy winter I can see coming. :handgestures-thumbup:
Mk1 1.6 Turbo. Gaz shocks. Tr Lane roll bar.
Garage Owner, Lincolshire
Helper to the Scunny track day crew and North Linc's Track Day Club.
www.stokesofkelsey.co.uk
User avatar
Mazda Mender
Site Admin
Posts: 15069
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:18 pm
Location: Pie land, in the glen of Wiganshire
Contact:

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby Mazda Mender » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:50 am

Link the threads you have found :handgestures-thumbup:
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build


http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
User avatar
Lazza
Site Admin
Posts: 2580
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:05 am
Location: Wokingham
Contact:

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby Lazza » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:23 am

Mine used to get very hot after about 10 mins on track. I solved that with a bigger rad and an oil cooler. To be honest, I think the oil cooler is making the biggest difference. Mind you, I'm only really taking notice of oil temperatures as that is much more important than coolant temperature.
Lazza

2001 Mk2.5 MX5 1.8 Sport
Hard Dog Deuce
GAZ Gold Pro
Mk3 seats
17” OZ Racing Superturissmo wheels (for the toad)
15” Rota Circuit 10 wheels (for track use)
User avatar
BenF
Epic Poster
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:50 pm
Location: Bath, Swindon or Noordwijk(NL)

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby BenF » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:07 pm

Lazza wrote:Mine used to get very hot after about 10 mins on track. I solved that with a bigger rad and an oil cooler. To be honest, I think the oil cooler is making the biggest difference. Mind you, I'm only really taking notice of oil temperatures as that is much more important than coolant temperature.


true. until she boils over, warps the head, the waterpump cavitates and you get chronic heatsoak breaking the block :teasing-neener:
seriously though track chaps, yes your temp is a problem, but a bigger one is the imbalance. Take a laser thermo with you next time and measure the differences between cylinders...?
User avatar
Lazza
Site Admin
Posts: 2580
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:05 am
Location: Wokingham
Contact:

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby Lazza » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:22 pm

BenF wrote:true. until she boils over, warps the head, the waterpump cavitates and you get chronic heatsoak breaking the block :teasing-neener:

Again, true, but if you can keep the oil temp down then the coolant temps will be easier to keep down and it's less likely to boil over, warp the head, cavitate the waterpump, chronic heatsoak breaking the block :wink:

And yes, I know about the heat imbalance problem too. If I did more track days I'd sort out a coolant reroute to protect cylinder 4 a bit better. As it is, I just limit my stints on track to 10-15 minute sessions.
Lazza

2001 Mk2.5 MX5 1.8 Sport
Hard Dog Deuce
GAZ Gold Pro
Mk3 seats
17” OZ Racing Superturissmo wheels (for the toad)
15” Rota Circuit 10 wheels (for track use)
User avatar
Mazda Mender
Site Admin
Posts: 15069
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:18 pm
Location: Pie land, in the glen of Wiganshire
Contact:

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby Mazda Mender » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:34 pm

I am really interested in this Ben :handgestures-thumbup: but i still don't see it making that much difference on a road car? maybe a motorway baby might reap the benefit?
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build


http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
User avatar
BenF
Epic Poster
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:50 pm
Location: Bath, Swindon or Noordwijk(NL)

Re: Coolant rerouting

Postby BenF » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:55 pm

I think the general consensus is that in normal driving the stock system is ok, it's just when it's asked a lot of that it falls down...

Return to “Modifications”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests