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Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Conversation about driving your MX fast on the track.
Drift, Hillclimbs, Sprints, Autotests.
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nedski
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Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Postby nedski » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:48 pm

Thought I would post this link.
It's a worry if this is how things are going. I'm going to keep an eye on how it ends up.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=18&t=1332239&mid=0&i=0&nmt=Claim+from+a+track+day&mid=0
Mk1 1.6 Turbo. Gaz shocks. Tr Lane roll bar.
Garage Owner, Lincolshire
Helper to the Scunny track day crew and North Linc's Track Day Club.
www.stokesofkelsey.co.uk
paggers
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Re: Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Postby paggers » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:00 am

Ouch.
Niall


1997 1.8i Roadster in Black
- Induction kit, Stainless Exhaust System, Lowered Springs
1998 1.8i S MX-5 in Silver
- Under restoration

Also into taking a few pictures - check out my website.
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binarypunk
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Re: Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Postby binarypunk » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:50 pm

I totally see the point of the vast majority of posters who obviously are decent people who enjoy track days and are happy to exchange paint at their own risk and so on...

But...imagine if you were on a track day and some muppet drives like a moron and wipes you out, car written off, your neck broken and facing the rest of your life in a wheelchair...should you just take it on the chin?

There is a line there somewhere and it seems the judge looked at the case and decided it had been crossed.
Jon - UK Mk1 1.6 1993 Classic Red

Check out my MX5 mods and tools:
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nedski
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Re: Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Postby nedski » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:16 pm

It's difficult.
You basically sign a disclaimer to take it on the chin. Or cover your own ar*e with insurance.
Up to now it's been a risk you take going on track. If you didn't like the risk then you didn't take part.
After all motorsport is dangerous, its a race track not a public road.

The blame and claim culture is killing lots of good things in this country. including garden fete's to carnivals to school trips. I just hope it doesn't happen to my beloved motorsport and track days.

hey ho
Mk1 1.6 Turbo. Gaz shocks. Tr Lane roll bar.
Garage Owner, Lincolshire
Helper to the Scunny track day crew and North Linc's Track Day Club.
www.stokesofkelsey.co.uk
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binarypunk
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Re: Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Postby binarypunk » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:48 am

I think the key problem is these disclaimers and people believing they mean something. No amount of signing bits of paper can absolve you of legal responsibility for what you do...wherever you are and whatever you are doing if you hurt someone or their stuff through your own negligence, you are liable. That includes walking in the street, sitting n your own back garden, down the pub and also at the track. You can't change the law by getting people to sign a disclaimer...and liability for your own negligence is enshrined in pretty ancient law - claims companies are a more modern problem, mind you.

We all have insurance for liability on the road not just because it's law, but also because it's very likely you'll do something silly. But if you knock someone over on a pushbike, or even just walking, you have the same liability and can be sued just as hard...but are unlikely to be insured if that happens (and so, unlikely to be able to stump up the cash, so you'll be bankrupt). If you are likely to be negligent on the track, you should definitely see if you can arrange insurance, or set aside a few million just in case.

This case just highlights the situation as it is...there's nothing new apart from someone (unusually) exercising their rights. It sounds to me that the judge found this guy's driving was well below the standard that should be expected, so the damage he caused is for him to put right.
Jon - UK Mk1 1.6 1993 Classic Red

Check out my MX5 mods and tools:
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Mazda Mender
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Re: Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Postby Mazda Mender » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:15 am

I see both sides of this the "where there is blame there is a claim" is heading like the good old USof A who seem to be dictating their way of living all around the world, when to be honest they should be sorting their own yard because it is not great,
People are growning up with this now fixed in their heads and are waiting for the "easy money" claim, i have seen it many times and it winds the f**k out of me, when you have honest poeple that DO need to claim.
Health and saftey law over here as gone stupid, and if we are honest they are in place to "cover ar*es" so they do not get stung with a law suit, and it is killing the joy of everything from these poeple that are not in the real world sat behind a desk making all this rubbish up on stupid amounts of money a year.
I agree that you need a line of does and don'ts, thats life as we were all dragged up with the wrong and right rule, unsure if that is being pushed now in this day and age as we are our own worse enemy, we have made life far to easy.
It would be a shame to see yet another shared fun days killed through red tape, but is that not why you have your marshalls that you are paying for in the price, to black flag the n*b heads and throw them off track before they kill someone?
M-m

Edit:- just read it, i can understand why the chap as claimed as he wants to put the car back right, but i think there was a bit of rubbing of the hands and £ signs put into play, but at the end of the day it is a track day ,and you risk damage to your pride and joy, ,this is the way i see it, if you are worried about hurting your pride and joy, don't do a track day, if you understand there is a risk, then take it on the chin and do a track day, the problem you have is most are going on in their pride and joys that they have spent hours and hours bringing them up into something special, and wingh like a b*tch when something happens, he could not control the car and spin out, his toy was to much for him and he pushed it to far to find his limit ....he found it and throw his toys out of the pram, the other chap did not control the car to miss it, end of,lack of experience on both parts, they are both to blame, it's a track day ,and the frill ,the buzz, the chase,and the risk playing racing car drivers, in your pride and joys :auto-layrubber:
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paggers
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Re: Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Postby paggers » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:20 am

In the end it comes down to the 'negligence' ruling. We don't know why the judge ruled in that direction but I would assume he had good cause.

Also, if he had lifted off, spun out, and crashed into a marshall pit I reckon people would be viewing this story very differently despite the fact that it was exactly the same action by the driver. For me the fact that he spun his car in the way described suggests that he may have been driving well beyond his skill which could go a long way towards explaining the negligence ruling. Track days are not just about seeing how fast you can go, they are about driving safely.
Niall


1997 1.8i Roadster in Black
- Induction kit, Stainless Exhaust System, Lowered Springs
1998 1.8i S MX-5 in Silver
- Under restoration

Also into taking a few pictures - check out my website.
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binarypunk
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Re: Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Postby binarypunk » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:37 am

Indeed...to spin out of lift off oversteer in a civic means you're properly hooning it. The yellows were out (whether he saw them or not) and even if they weren't, he was already trying too hard. Trackdays are not races...if they were everyone would need licenses and the track would need proper cover.

It would be sad if trackdays saw the same 'hold your neck and stick out your hand' culture coming that we have on the roads, but it was always a possibility and it is anytime where you hold the power to hurt people through your actions, wherever you are and whatever you are doing.

The lesson to learn is not to stop going to trackdays, but to always remember that wherever you are, you are responsible for your own actions, and you must take care of other people's safety.
Jon - UK Mk1 1.6 1993 Classic Red

Check out my MX5 mods and tools:
http://www.binarypunk.co.uk
Need spares? Go to Autolink!
http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
paggers
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Re: Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Postby paggers » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:57 pm

:text-goodpost: :text-imwithstupid:
Niall


1997 1.8i Roadster in Black
- Induction kit, Stainless Exhaust System, Lowered Springs
1998 1.8i S MX-5 in Silver
- Under restoration

Also into taking a few pictures - check out my website.
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Badknee
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Re: Track day claim. Not good for the hobby

Postby Badknee » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:30 pm

I for one would never take my P&J out on track for this very reason but have in the past raced an old nail that cost me very little to buy but was masses of fun. IMO this would be the way to go.

But :text-goodpost: :text-thankyouyellow:
Paul & Angela.
'93 1.8 in Super Silver
Fully blinged up (thanks M-m)
Lowered into the weeds hung on Gaz Gold Pro's.

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