I've a year 2000 1.8 MX-5 mk2 and I'm having some ignition problems. I had a problem about 2 years ago with a failed coil and replaced both and worked fine again till recently. Now, again, there's a spark only on cylinders 2&3, so with my previous experience, I've swapped the coils over and the one that was on pots 1&4 is now on 2&3 and again it only fires on 2&3, so it's not the coils. Swapped the ignition leads over, with the plugs taken out and still fires on 2&3 only, so it's not the leads. They all have a resistance of about 1.5Kohm per inch ( about 0.6Kohm per cm, in new money). Both coils are getting 12v and earth on pins A and C and the wiring to pins D on the coil, are definitely continuous back to pins 3G and 3H on the multiway connector of the ECU/PCM (if anyone knows or cares about these things).
Next up was a bit of Googling and was led to suspect Crank Angle Sensor and Cam Position Sensor. Bought new ones of these, CPS slotted straight in and with a bit of fiddling, fitted the new CAS and set the gap to 1.0 mm which is the exact mid range of the suggested tolerance. Again I tested the connections, 12v and earth on pins A and C of the CAS and CPS and continuous connections back to the ECU/PCM for both units to pins 2H and 2J respectively, again if anybody cares and all the pins are clearly marked on the PCB (Printed Circuit Board). The result of about £120 and a couple of hours in the freezing cold - still fires on pots 2&3 only.
Next up I thought it can only be the ECU at fault. It's the wife's car and it did get a bit wet for a while and down in the passenger footwell, which I have since rectified, as she didn't tell me water was sloshing about, mostly in the cills. Now I know to regularly clear the drain holes. Anyway on to MX5Bits and a second hand ECU, guaranteed working for £200 arrived today and was at least a bit warmer to fit it, but no, still only sparks on one coil.
Does anyone know if anything else is in the spark generation process apart from te CAS, CPS, ECU, coils and the wiring to and from each. As far as I am aware any other fault would give NO spark at all. Got any ideas before "We buy any car" become involved.
Colmar
What you put in, you'll get back ten fold
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M-m
Greetings and welcome to menders, this site was built for every owner that might need her to help keep those bills low and also keep them on the road where they belong, she is run by very passionate enthusiasts owners for passionate enthusiastic owners, see her like a on line garage, there is a lot of tech stuff hopefully explained for everyone to use, if there is something you cannot get your head around, or you feel that there is a strong walk through guide missing that needs creating by one of us or from yourselves, please let us know, we are also on false book and youtube, which as short tech vids to help, and again if you feel there is a vid that would help please get it touch.
the menders is free, but like everything there is a cost to run things and bills( we are just happy its not a heating cost), so if we have saved you hundreds, please throw a small donation in the pot so we can keep on going to carry on helping others in the same way .
*** we are currently looking for a sponsor for this year, so if you have the passion and can see this sites worth to everyone , please get in touch and step forward to help***
And thank heavens that we are now on the way back up the brighter ,warmer longer days, "come on summer", and lets see those project builds.
M-m
Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
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Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
I guess she is a UK spec Mx-5? if so just changing the ECU would not work any way as the ECU,immobiliser,transponder/key and ignition aerial/coil are all coded together, so just swapping a ECU will not start the Mx, and he should know that from Mx5bits, if she is a Jap import than a straight swap of the ECU is ok.
There is a very good guide on here on the ECU swap on a UK spec Mx by Baza.
M-m
There is a very good guide on here on the ECU swap on a UK spec Mx by Baza.
M-m
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This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.
Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.
Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
Ok. I didn't mention the ECU unit was a complete demobilised kit from MX5Bitz, with the coded sender, originally within the key, taped into the induction ring sensor and the matching immobiliser and ECU. You plug in the new one into the multiway and it sits loose inside the plastic steering column shroud. This, now permanently activated immobiliser, plugs in, instead of the original one and bingo, original keys with new immobiliser and ECU. Additionally, I've flattened the battery a few times so there is nothing on the OBDII. Also when I turn it over, it's with the plugs out and all grounded with jump leads. Plug gaps are at 1.0 mm and there's a beautiful spark from one coil, nothing from the other. There is definitely fuel reaching the engine as I can smell it.
There must be something else I've overlooked in the ignition sequence. Houston we have a problem..... we buy any car.....
colmar
There must be something else I've overlooked in the ignition sequence. Houston we have a problem..... we buy any car.....
colmar
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Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
Swap it back over and lets see if you get two again instead of one.
M-m
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.
Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.
Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
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Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
There are a few wires from the ecu to the coil packs but specifically two wires from the ECU are important here, one fires 1 and 4 the other 2 and 3.
There is a plate behind the crankshaft pulley with four blips around 90 degrees apart, I'm told not exactly 90 degrees apart.
These four blips each tell the ECU when to send a fire signalto the coil packs. On that car the ecu checks for a signal from the cam sensor at the same time and if it sees the signal from the cam sensor at the same time as a crank blip signal ( note at the same time) it sends a fire signal to the I guess 1 and 4 plugs. If it does not see that cam signal at the correct time it only sends two signals to 2 and 3 every rev. It needs the extra signal from the cam sensor to do 1 and 4 between each 2 and 3 fire signal.
This is my belief and not written in stone.
I'm guessing that the cam belt has jumped more than a few teeth for some reason and the ecu is not getting that signal from the cam sensor at the correct time to send the extra 1 and 4 fire signal.
You have done both sensors and I believe you have checked all the wires are connected.
Therefore checking the cam timing is your next port of call.
I'm also told that there are two ignition maps on the ECU by Robbie Roadster on the OC Forum and that unless the cam and crank sensor send at signal at the same time for a number of revs the engine does not swap from the start ignition map to the running ignition map!
We buy any car will not buy a non starting car!
There is a plate behind the crankshaft pulley with four blips around 90 degrees apart, I'm told not exactly 90 degrees apart.
These four blips each tell the ECU when to send a fire signalto the coil packs. On that car the ecu checks for a signal from the cam sensor at the same time and if it sees the signal from the cam sensor at the same time as a crank blip signal ( note at the same time) it sends a fire signal to the I guess 1 and 4 plugs. If it does not see that cam signal at the correct time it only sends two signals to 2 and 3 every rev. It needs the extra signal from the cam sensor to do 1 and 4 between each 2 and 3 fire signal.
This is my belief and not written in stone.
I'm guessing that the cam belt has jumped more than a few teeth for some reason and the ecu is not getting that signal from the cam sensor at the correct time to send the extra 1 and 4 fire signal.
You have done both sensors and I believe you have checked all the wires are connected.
Therefore checking the cam timing is your next port of call.
I'm also told that there are two ignition maps on the ECU by Robbie Roadster on the OC Forum and that unless the cam and crank sensor send at signal at the same time for a number of revs the engine does not swap from the start ignition map to the running ignition map!
We buy any car will not buy a non starting car!
1999 Mk2 Silver
2008 Mk3 Copper Red gone
2018 Mk4 GT+ Red
Drumtochty Glen, Auchenblae, Aberdeenshire
2008 Mk3 Copper Red gone
2018 Mk4 GT+ Red
Drumtochty Glen, Auchenblae, Aberdeenshire
Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
Thanks for the info on the cam belt Drumtochty. Belt was replaced on around 46k miles, is now on about 63k, so was not suspected. Cross-examination of the wife, who was driving when it broke down, reveals there was a smell of burning rubber,as well as the ignition failure, so I'll check the timing belt for damage and read up how to replace it. May be a job for my garage as I am parked on the public highway.
Colmar.
Colmar.
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Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
The ignition wizards on miata.net say that the crank trigger wheel has triggers at 12:30, 4.00, 6:30,10:00 and the engine management only sees two of the triggers and that does the ignition timing.
They claim the cam sensor opens and closes the fuel injectors.
That disagrees with what Robbie Roadster told me about the NB but if I take what these guys on miata.net say it does not explain a problem I had with a Mk2.
I'm getting confussed now.
They claim the cam sensor opens and closes the fuel injectors.
That disagrees with what Robbie Roadster told me about the NB but if I take what these guys on miata.net say it does not explain a problem I had with a Mk2.
I'm getting confussed now.
1999 Mk2 Silver
2008 Mk3 Copper Red gone
2018 Mk4 GT+ Red
Drumtochty Glen, Auchenblae, Aberdeenshire
2008 Mk3 Copper Red gone
2018 Mk4 GT+ Red
Drumtochty Glen, Auchenblae, Aberdeenshire
- Mazda Mender
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Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
Have you run a fault code test?
M-m
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.
Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.
Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
The car has no fault codes as the battery has been flat a couple of times.
I've taken the head off and here is a photo of the belt on the cams at top dead centre.
Timing looks spot on to me and there is no sign of damage to the belt. It was replaced 17k miles ago.
I've taken the head off and here is a photo of the belt on the cams at top dead centre.
Timing looks spot on to me and there is no sign of damage to the belt. It was replaced 17k miles ago.
Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
Should have said took the cam cover off, not the whole cylinder head...duh
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Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
It looks to me that the exhaust cam is at least a tooth out for starters.
That would make it one tooth retarded compared to the inlet and about 8 crankshaft degrees retarded.
I did a 1600 Mk2 last summer and it was half a tooth out after I put it together and it lacked sparkly but putting it right brought the sparkle .
Would one tooth cause your problem, I'm not convinced.
Have a feel of all the blips on the ignition wheel behind the crank pulley is one a slight different shape from the others and are they all in alignment from the distance behind the crank pully is one maybe bent back.
That would make it one tooth retarded compared to the inlet and about 8 crankshaft degrees retarded.
I did a 1600 Mk2 last summer and it was half a tooth out after I put it together and it lacked sparkly but putting it right brought the sparkle .
Would one tooth cause your problem, I'm not convinced.
Have a feel of all the blips on the ignition wheel behind the crank pulley is one a slight different shape from the others and are they all in alignment from the distance behind the crank pully is one maybe bent back.
1999 Mk2 Silver
2008 Mk3 Copper Red gone
2018 Mk4 GT+ Red
Drumtochty Glen, Auchenblae, Aberdeenshire
2008 Mk3 Copper Red gone
2018 Mk4 GT+ Red
Drumtochty Glen, Auchenblae, Aberdeenshire
- Mazda Mender
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Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
From the angle of the pic it does look out, but is the crank also in time?
M-m
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.
Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.
Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
Dear Mazda Menders,
Finally got some time and good weather to look at the mx5 mk2 again. Bought all 3 belts for cam, alternator/water pump and power steering/Aircon unit and new idle and tensioner wheels/spring (must get a new thermostat gasket as you have to take that off). I undid the 4x10mm bolts for on pulley wheel for the alternator/power steering, but could not separate them, so removed the entire contraption. My god the crank pulley wheel bolt was hard to get off, but the handle to my car jack gave enough leverage to undo it, thought it must be reverse threaded for a while, but god bless penetrating oil... Anyway, I've found the crank position sensor trigger plate has only 3 teeth, one has been sheared off. You mentioned this Drumrochty and I didn't know what it was, but I do now (photos to follow tomorrow). There was no sign of rust to the wheel and I don't know where to get a replacement. Baffling why only one is missing, if it was sheared by the CPS, maybe it moved it back out when it hit it, if it was loose? I've got Monday 09/05 off to investigate further (or 05/09 for any Americans reading). Maybe my friend, who makes miniature steam locomotives, can silver solder a new tooth onto the existing wheel. At least I am starting to understand the ignition process better, thanks to you all for your help. Colmar
Finally got some time and good weather to look at the mx5 mk2 again. Bought all 3 belts for cam, alternator/water pump and power steering/Aircon unit and new idle and tensioner wheels/spring (must get a new thermostat gasket as you have to take that off). I undid the 4x10mm bolts for on pulley wheel for the alternator/power steering, but could not separate them, so removed the entire contraption. My god the crank pulley wheel bolt was hard to get off, but the handle to my car jack gave enough leverage to undo it, thought it must be reverse threaded for a while, but god bless penetrating oil... Anyway, I've found the crank position sensor trigger plate has only 3 teeth, one has been sheared off. You mentioned this Drumrochty and I didn't know what it was, but I do now (photos to follow tomorrow). There was no sign of rust to the wheel and I don't know where to get a replacement. Baffling why only one is missing, if it was sheared by the CPS, maybe it moved it back out when it hit it, if it was loose? I've got Monday 09/05 off to investigate further (or 05/09 for any Americans reading). Maybe my friend, who makes miniature steam locomotives, can silver solder a new tooth onto the existing wheel. At least I am starting to understand the ignition process better, thanks to you all for your help. Colmar
- Mazda Mender
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Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
Ring Andrew at Autolinkmx5 for the plate using our discount code, and please get a crank locking tool for when building back up.
M-m
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.
Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.
Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 ,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 .
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 soul red ..f/ build
MK 2.1/4 Blue V.S Roadster 1.8 99 ..
MK1 1.8 ,white import.. (Ashleighs)
MK1 1.6 yellow J ltd import.f/build
MK 1 1.8 black Tokyo Ltd..f/build
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
Re: Mk2 MX-5 ignition process
Sorry for not updating my Mazda fix, but this is how it went.
I've got a Mk2 but I used to have a Mk1 and have a workshop book similar to a Haynes and although there are some references to later models, it is generally based on an 1.8 Mk1 rebuild. There is no mention of a CPS trigger plate, but it does mention turning the crank to find a tooth and to set the spacing to the CPS at between 0.5-1.5 mm. I thought the tooth was on the crank pulley wheel and there was only one, but when I got the pulley wheel off, I found the plate with 1 of the 4 teeth sheared off.
Autolink had 4 in stock and is 25 mins drive from me, £13.93 inc VAT. Fitted new plate, new belts for timing, alternator and aircon.
Put everything else back together,torque wrench on pulley wheel bolt etc. Went very well considering I did it all at the side of the public road. Plenty of smart alecs offering to give me a push etc. So now the acid test. Plugs out, pump a bit of fuel though, plugs back in and ... still not working
Oops, forgot to reconnect the cpu, tried again and fired first time
Been perfect ever since and have quite a few spares now
So the trigger plate is only on the Mk2 and we buy any car are not needed.
Thanks for your help and hope it is an insight on the full ignition process...
I've got a Mk2 but I used to have a Mk1 and have a workshop book similar to a Haynes and although there are some references to later models, it is generally based on an 1.8 Mk1 rebuild. There is no mention of a CPS trigger plate, but it does mention turning the crank to find a tooth and to set the spacing to the CPS at between 0.5-1.5 mm. I thought the tooth was on the crank pulley wheel and there was only one, but when I got the pulley wheel off, I found the plate with 1 of the 4 teeth sheared off.
Autolink had 4 in stock and is 25 mins drive from me, £13.93 inc VAT. Fitted new plate, new belts for timing, alternator and aircon.
Put everything else back together,torque wrench on pulley wheel bolt etc. Went very well considering I did it all at the side of the public road. Plenty of smart alecs offering to give me a push etc. So now the acid test. Plugs out, pump a bit of fuel though, plugs back in and ... still not working
Oops, forgot to reconnect the cpu, tried again and fired first time
Been perfect ever since and have quite a few spares now
So the trigger plate is only on the Mk2 and we buy any car are not needed.
Thanks for your help and hope it is an insight on the full ignition process...
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