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Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

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drh
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Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby drh » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:21 pm

Hi,
I have been advised to try my luck here after being at the end of my tether with the above fault.

The vehicle in question is a Mazda Roadster Mk2 10th Anniversary Edition AUTO, I believe its a 1999 model, manufactured in 1998 according to the V5.

History:
I always wanted a MX5 and I came upon the opportunity to buy a beautiful example with a non-starting problem.
When I went to view the car, I took along a friend who was impressed by the condition of the car and gave me faith that sorting the problem wouldn't be an issue.
This turned out to be a huge mistake that I now regret.

The previous owner had owner the car for 8 years and garaged it for the winter, hence the excellent condition for the year and one of the main reasons I wanted it because I found so many to have a history of excessive corrosion reported in the MOT database.

To cut a long story short, the car developed the crank no start issue one year when they came to take it out after its winter hibernation and its never worked again.

A few people have looked at it and checked all the obvious things (before I bought it) and despite spending many hours myself and getting another 3rd party to look at the car, the fault prevails to stump everyone.

Check Points:
The problem is not Fuel related, its a No Spark issue.

The previous owner suspected the problem might be the 3rd party LaserLine Alarm / immobiliser, so my first port of call was to trace the immobilisation wires.
I believe I found them, I found an ignition wire interrupted which I isolated and re-connected back to normal and I found another wire behind the plastic trim in the drivers side foot well which might have been fuel related, so I isolated that too and re-connected back to normal.
I then disconnected the power and ground wires to the alarm. None of this made any difference to the crank no start issue though so am assuming the tip was a red herring.

I bought a LED diag instruction kit and there were no faults being reported.

I have replaced the Crank Sensor anyway (as its so widely reported), despite the previous owner saying that had already been done, no change.
I recruited the services of a mobile diagnosis guy who measured the CAM sensor and proved it was showing no resistance. I was hesitant to think such an easy part to change could have been overlooked by all the previous people but given the evidence replaced it.
The weird thing is, now it has a new CAM sensor, the car now reports a 1345 code indicating a problem with the CAM sensor ?!?!?
The diagnostic guy suggested maybe the car is incapable of realising a fault with the old sensor as its looked to be open circuit but he was baffled as to why it would now report a problem with the new sensor which measured resistance ok and measurde pluses when cranked.
The diagnostic guy checked the signal wires back to the ECU and concluded they were ok.

The previous owner had even bought a replacement ECU (with matching Identification numbers) which I got with the car but this functions in exactly the same way as the original.
The car has a regular key and standard barrel which I believe means there is no factory immobiliser fitted so switching the ECU over should be without issue but either way, I have put the original ECU back on the car to be on the safe side.

I don't think I have missed anything out, but I have just typed all this out from memory of the last few months of frustration.

This is probably my last resort, having already tried a few different forums and given the amount of eyes that have been on this problem, I am having to consider throwing in the towel and scrapping the car (which would be a travesty), however I really doubt this car will never run again :-(

Thanks in advance for listening and I welcome any advice even if it is to cut my losses.
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Re: Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby Speedy » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:37 pm

:text-welcomewave: to the home of Menders

Link to the Owners Club thread, thanks to Drumtochty for sending this one to the experts on here.

https://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/yaf_posts ... perts.aspx
1989 Just imported with 30,000 km, Maruha Four Pot calipers, 270mm disks, Rose jointed drop links, Uprated ARB's, Meister R Coilovers, Rota wheels, LSD, Zoom console, Maruha Alternator, Jenvey IRTB's, Megasquirt ECU

2011 2.0 RC Sport Tech in Aluminium, Smart Top.
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Re: Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby Mazda Mender » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:48 am

Wow, just read your post and the link to the clubs board.....BE VERY CAREFUL messing with electrics, even more so when it comes to immobilizers. right she is an imported Jap spec roadster, not a UK spec MX-5, the immobilizer/Alarm is a very cheap system and are well known for failing, how are you with electrics? can you remove it correct and bin it, so we know that we are back to square one with the wiring, the box on the back of the instrument cluster is a mile and speedo converter to MPH from KPH and will not be giving you the starting issue.
Basics first as you have mentioned the crank sensor (is the cap correct? aftermarket or OE?))and cam sensor(aftermarket or OE?),ECU...
Is the gear shifter parked all the way into park?, have you checked that the timing belt is ok?
Are the fuses and relays all ok .
How strong is that spark?
Is the fuel pump working?
Are the coil packs ok?
This sounds like an electrical fault and more than likely a sensor.
Your in the right place, welcome to menders.
Where are you in the uk?
She is testing you ;0)
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 fettling,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
Mk 1 Eunos 96 1.8 blue B2...being fettled
Mk1 Eunos 93 1.6 black S special **gone**
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
Mxmurray
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Re: Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby Mxmurray » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:41 am

Drh
Glad you took my advice and jumped on here from the OC forum.
I'm sure the menders will get you sorted.
Regards
Dermot.
drh
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Re: Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby drh » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:32 pm

Mazda Mender wrote:Wow, just read your post and the link to the clubs board.....BE VERY CAREFUL messing with electrics, even more so when it comes to immobilizers. right she is an imported Jap spec roadster, not a UK spec MX-5, the immobilizer/Alarm is a very cheap system and are well known for failing, how are you with electrics? can you remove it correct and bin it, so we know that we are back to square one with the wiring, the box on the back of the instrument cluster is a mile and speedo converter to MPH from KPH and will not be giving you the starting issue.
Basics first as you have mentioned the crank sensor (is the cap correct? aftermarket or OE?))and cam sensor(aftermarket or OE?),ECU...
Is the gear shifter parked all the way into park?, have you checked that the timing belt is ok?
Are the fuses and relays all ok .
How strong is that spark?
Is the fuel pump working?
Are the coil packs ok?
This sounds like an electrical fault and more than likely a sensor.
Your in the right place, welcome to menders.
Where are you in the uk?
She is testing you ;0)
M-m


Replying to above in order:

The LaserLine Alarm / Immobiliser has been bypassed. I'm loathed to remove it completely because I don't think its the problem and I would like to re-instate it if it I can resolve the problem as it provides central locking etc.

I have replaced the Crank and CAM sensors with after market new items.

There is no spark, fuel is ok, you can smell it when you try cranking, particularly when checking for spark.

Could packs were replaced by previous owner and they doo indeed look new, but e don't think the ECU os sending the signal to spark.

I am in Worcestershire (Midlands).

Yes, she has tested me, the previous owner and 3+ 3rd parties to their limits and no-one can fix her!

I'm working away this weekend, so I may not be able to reply or do anything until next week.

Thanks for replying :)
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Re: Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby Mazda Mender » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:25 am

When you removed the Laser line alarm/immobilizer, have defo connected all the correct wires back together, as the immobilizer should of cut ignition and fuel ....lack of spark is not going to be much, you say that the coils are new? as is the cam sensor and crank sensor?, are they aftermarket? have you tried another AFM? plugged in a OBD II reader again?
Just a thought but have you check the ignition switch?
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 fettling,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
Mk 1 Eunos 96 1.8 blue B2...being fettled
Mk1 Eunos 93 1.6 black S special **gone**
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
drh
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Re: Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby drh » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:46 am

Mazda Mender wrote:When you removed the Laser line alarm/immobilizer, have defo connected all the correct wires back together, as the immobilizer should of cut ignition and fuel ....lack of spark is not going to be much, you say that the coils are new? as is the cam sensor and crank sensor?, are they aftermarket? have you tried another AFM? plugged in a OBD II reader again?
Just a thought but have you check the ignition switch?
M-m


I found two pairs of alarm wires that were connected either side of an cut car loom wire on the ignition column and two pairs of alarm wires that were connected to a cut car loom wire behind a plastic trim in the drivers foot well.

I haven't tried any more CAM & Cranks sensors as I don't want to keep buying new parts to replace new parts. I've already spent a few hundred pounds to be in exactly the same position and no further forward, However, I'd gladly spend that much again if I knew it would guarantee a fix if that makes any sense.
The car doesn't have ODB II, but the Mazda Diag (flashing LED) does not report any codes.

I think it has everyone beat, I think its just going to be one of those that gets away to be honest.

Thanks
Dave.
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Re: Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby Mazda Mender » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:29 am

Never say die...it as not got us beat yet....so have you tried another AFM..
Never assume new parts are all good..

M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 fettling,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
Mk 1 Eunos 96 1.8 blue B2...being fettled
Mk1 Eunos 93 1.6 black S special **gone**
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
drh
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Re: Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby drh » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:34 am

No, I haven't tried an AFM.
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Re: Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby Mazda Mender » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:59 am

Is thete no one local you can try one from?
M-m
The Disclaimer:-
This post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects, the articles/answers/comments are provided for information purposes and they are not intended to substitute informed professional advice, I or mazdamenders.net cannot personally be hold responsible for any damage occurred from following this procedure or any injuries from it. Proceed at your own risk.


Mk 1 Eunos 93 black V.S II 1.8 fettling,
Mk 2 .1/4 Roadster 99 black & gold V.S 1.8 being rebuilt,
Mk 1 Eunos 90 1.6 (claimed by daughter)
Mk 1 Eunos 96 1.8 blue B2...being fettled
Mk1 Eunos 93 1.6 black S special **gone**
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/ http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/ http://miata.net/ http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/
drh
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Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:49 pm

Re: Mazda Mk2 Crank No Start Stubborn Fault

Postby drh » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:36 am

Despite them being so popular, unfortunately no-one I know has one.

Interestingly, I've stumbled on someone else selling one a similar age with the same problem and according to their advert, it appears they've too have tried in vein to rectify the problem and given up.

Here's a copy of the ad:

>>>>>>>>>>>
Mx5 mk2 1.6

Spares or repairs

Mx5 was running fine until a few months ago when i went out one morning it didn’t want to start, the problem appears to be no spark.
Since then have purchased new fuel pump, injectors, spark plugs, uprated ht leads, ecu and immobiliser.
Still no joy.

The car has been parked in my garage. Will need towing away.
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